NHS staff lose jobs as admin goes to India .Thursday, November 17, 2011 West Briton

Follow.ADMINISTRATIVE work undertaken by the health service in Cornwall is being privatised and sent to India.

The Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Primary Care Trust (PCT) is transferring its patient registration work to NHS Shared Business Services.

The deal between the Government and private firm Steria will affect 26 staff at Sedgemoor Centre in St Austell. About a third are expected to lose their jobs in December when the transfer takes place.

The move has been criticised by health campaigners who claim it is more evidence of the Government's aim to sell off the NHS. Unison accused the PCT of "steamrollering" the move through and giving staff little notice.

Family health services provide a range of administrative functions including registration of patients, management of records and payments to contractors.

In a letter to the county's MPs and members of Cornwall Council's overview scrutiny committee, Jon Tilbury, the PCT's medical director and director of primary care, said the NHS was having to find £20 billion savings in the next three and a half years, while improving efficiency and quality.

The South West is having to find £10 million savings in the next six years.

Mr Tilbury said some work, involving the registration system, would take place in India, but clinical medical records and all telephone work would remain in the UK.

Further job cuts have not been ruled out as the PCT's regional communications may be replaced by one central department.

Chris Dayus, Unison's regional officer, said: "We are unhappy about the pace of change. We were told that a decision would not be made until the new year. During talks on October 27 the PCT said discussions were continuing. Then, on November 1, staff were told they would be going by December 1.

Genuine

"It makes you wonder what genuine local engagement there is. The Government is keen to set up regional control through new GP commissioning groups but the future for all PCT health staff is uncertain." While staff will see their current NHS terms and conditions transferred to Steria, once employed by the firm they could see their contracts change, warned Mrs Dayus.

"Staff are very worried and fearful of speaking out in case it marks them out as trouble-makers. Off-shoring work to India makes a falsehood that they are safeguarding Cornish jobs. "There is no job security, it means many face a grim Christmas," she added.

Graham Webster, vice-chairman of campaign group Health Initiative Cornwall, said the deal muddied the waters and signalled the dismantling of the NHS.

"It's all getting very murky. Nobody knows who is doing what and who is accountable. The PCT wants to cut jobs and use the savings for frontline care, but this is a gesture. How long before Steria decides to take its work elsewhere? We have seen adult community health services transferred into the hands of a private social enterprise – what next?"

MY QUESTION: Must we now travel to INDIA to kick NHS arse?

In a similar, but opposing situation.

All through our CCF appeals we have been dealat with by a PCT which is overseen by a particular SHA. The stage of our appeal that we are now at has been passed to a chief executive of "cluster" that is the original PCT and a neighbouring PCT, and we are told the Chief Exec of the neighbouring PCT is now the Chief exec of our PCT and the neighbouring PCT and the cluster. As far as we can make out the cluster has been setup in anticipation of the forthcoming commisioning changes - presumably the act that is now going through parliament , but is not yet in operation.

We have also been told that the two PCT are still legal entities in their own right

Hear is my point though, the neighbouring PCT is in another SHA region - so who is the overiding SHA that is in charge of the cluster - and who would anyone appeal to after any local CCF panel has done their bit?

I though the NHS was supposed to be being streamlined!

richay wrote:In a similar, but opposing situation.

All through our CCF appeals we have been dealat with by a PCT which is overseen by a particular SHA. The stage of our appeal that we are now at has been passed to a chief executive of "cluster" that is the original PCT and a neighbouring PCT, and we are told the Chief Exec of the neighbouring PCT is now the Chief exec of our PCT and the neighbouring PCT and the cluster. As far as we can make out the cluster has been setup in anticipation of the forthcoming commisioning changes - presumably the act that is now going through parliament , but is not yet in operation.

We have also been told that the two PCT are still legal entities in their own right

Hear is my point though, the neighbouring PCT is in another SHA region - so who is the overiding SHA that is in charge of the cluster - and who would anyone appeal to after any local CCF panel has done their bit?

I though the NHS was supposed to be being streamlined!

Yes, I know all about this, and was told exactly what was going on by Esquires when it happened to me, and it is a common and well known trick. What they are trying to claim is that by sending cases to another PCT, then this lot is somehow independent, which is nonsense as they are all linked to the Health Service.

AND the new lot will come out with the same response, which will be NO. So this is intended to ensure that both the first and the so-called "independent" mob have reached the same conclusions, and you are not entitled to full funding, and then these arguments are sent to you, and then you are supposed to go away with empty hands and your tail between your legs, completely defeated.

I have spoken about the meetings carousel many times on the forum, and it is very cruel, but wait until the new lot come out with the same explanation. Do not go back to the original PCT - you will get nowhere.

The Ombudsman is the next step - but they're useless as well, but unfortunately necessary. And it will take for ever and ever and ever. But forearmed etc....

Keep forum informed of each stage you have reached, and I am sorry about the frustration - welcome to the club.

FinnMickey wrote:

richay wrote:In a similar, but opposing situation.

All through our CCF appeals we have been dealat with by a PCT which is overseen by a particular SHA. The stage of our appeal that we are now at has been passed to a chief executive of "cluster" that is the original PCT and a neighbouring PCT, and we are told the Chief Exec of the neighbouring PCT is now the Chief exec of our PCT and the neighbouring PCT and the cluster. As far as we can make out the cluster has been setup in anticipation of the forthcoming commisioning changes - presumably the act that is now going through parliament , but is not yet in operation.

We have also been told that the two PCT are still legal entities in their own right

Hear is my point though, the neighbouring PCT is in another SHA region - so who is the overiding SHA that is in charge of the cluster - and who would anyone appeal to after any local CCF panel has done their bit?

I though the NHS was supposed to be being streamlined!

Yes, I know all about this, and was told exactly what was going on by Esquires when it happened to me, and it is a common and well known trick. What they are trying to claim is that by sending cases to another PCT, then this lot is somehow independent, which is nonsense as they are all linked to the Health Service.

AND the new lot will come out with the same response, which will be NO. So this is intended to ensure that both the first and the so-called "independent" mob have reached the same conclusions, and you are not entitled to full funding, and then these arguments are sent to you, and then you are supposed to go away with empty hands and your tail between your legs, completely defeated.

I have spoken about the meetings carousel many times on the forum, and it is very cruel, but wait until the new lot come out with the same explanation. Do not go back to the original PCT - you will get nowhere.

The Ombudsman is the next step - but they're useless as well, but unfortunately necessary. And it will take for ever and ever and ever. But forearmed etc....

Keep forum informed of each stage you have reached, and I am sorry about the frustration - welcome to the club.

With respect FM, the situations may be different because of the new clusters (if I understand richay correctly). I think your case was before this began to happen?

Our case, still current and which started just before the new clusters came in, was that our PCT sent our case to a neighbouring PCT which since has joined the same cluster. This neighbouring PCT up-graded one of the domains, making two severes which normally indicates a PHN and thus full funding. Our PCT turned it down. But, my point is, the neighbouring PCT did change two domains (one of which was less than severe). We expect to win - eventually! I cannot answer your question richay but in our case I think the SHA remains the same.

maryjo wrote:

FinnMickey wrote:

richay wrote:In a similar, but opposing situation.

All through our CCF appeals we have been dealat with by a PCT which is overseen by a particular SHA. The stage of our appeal that we are now at has been passed to a chief executive of "cluster" that is the original PCT and a neighbouring PCT, and we are told the Chief Exec of the neighbouring PCT is now the Chief exec of our PCT and the neighbouring PCT and the cluster. As far as we can make out the cluster has been setup in anticipation of the forthcoming commisioning changes - presumably the act that is now going through parliament , but is not yet in operation.

We have also been told that the two PCT are still legal entities in their own right

Hear is my point though, the neighbouring PCT is in another SHA region - so who is the overiding SHA that is in charge of the cluster - and who would anyone appeal to after any local CCF panel has done their bit?

I though the NHS was supposed to be being streamlined!

Yes, I know all about this, and was told exactly what was going on by Esquires when it happened to me, and it is a common and well known trick. What they are trying to claim is that by sending cases to another PCT, then this lot is somehow independent, which is nonsense as they are all linked to the Health Service.

AND the new lot will come out with the same response, which will be NO. So this is intended to ensure that both the first and the so-called "independent" mob have reached the same conclusions, and you are not entitled to full funding, and then these arguments are sent to you, and then you are supposed to go away with empty hands and your tail between your legs, completely defeated.

I have spoken about the meetings carousel many times on the forum, and it is very cruel, but wait until the new lot come out with the same explanation. Do not go back to the original PCT - you will get nowhere.

The Ombudsman is the next step - but they're useless as well, but unfortunately necessary. And it will take for ever and ever and ever. But forearmed etc....

Keep forum informed of each stage you have reached, and I am sorry about the frustration - welcome to the club.

With respect FM, the situations may be different because of the new clusters (if I understand richay correctly). I think your case was before this began to happen?

Our case, still current and which started just before the new clusters came in, was that our PCT sent our case to a neighbouring PCT which since has joined the same cluster. This neighbouring PCT up-graded one of the domains, making two severes which normally indicates a PHN and thus full funding. Our PCT turned it down. But, my point is, the neighbouring PCT did change two domains (one of which was less than severe). We expect to win - eventually! I cannot answer your question richay but in our case I think the SHA remains the same.

Ok fair enough, but I think I can say it has parallels, would you settle for that?

Parallels, yes.

Don't want to say more about our case at present but our neighbouring PCT did change the domain findings, although did not make a recommendation for CHC (against all logic!). So they did not change the 'NO' although I suspect that their incompetence meant that they did not notice that they had given domain levels that should have indicated 'YES'. Did someone say we are up against fools? Or maybe it's a case of none so blind... perhaps.

Maryjo - you are correct in that it is different.

We won an appeal thorugh IRP and recieved 20,000 back, but no other refund other than just the care fees.

In our case the full bill was for 30,000 which forced us to sell a house, and then won the 20,000 back.

We are arguing that if the PCT had got the assesment correct then we could have kept the property.

We then went to the ombudsman who refused to investigate.

However, we the asked for paperwork from the PCT who shot themesleves in the foot and proved themselves that they had not followed their own CCF redress procedure.

We have asked them to go back and redo the redress procedure correctly

It is this request that has been passed to the new cluste chief exec.

maryjo wrote:Parallels, yes.

Don't want to say more about our case at present but our neighbouring PCT did change the domain findings, although did not make a recommendation for CHC (against all logic!). So they did not change the 'NO' although I suspect that their incompetence meant that they did not notice that they had given domain levels that should have indicated 'YES'. Did someone say we are up against fools? Or maybe it's a case of none so blind... perhaps.

What I was trying to say is that these people get up to all kinds of tricks to say NO, and wear you down (actually I think this case should be on the main chat site because of its interest and will touch just about everyone on the forum, but of course it is your choice) and I too have been caught up in this kind of web as have sadly too many others, so I fully sympathise. They will make it as difficult as possible for you, so be ready. They are extremely foolish people, but they are not fools. They are obeying orders, although you will not find anything in writing, emails etc, anywhere.

All the best