The founding principles of the health act - which has NOT been repealed - clearly state that where there is illness, disability or injury 'care shall be provided free at the point of need regardless of the ability to pay' This principle has recently been upheld in the 'Booker case' confirming that where continuing patient care is required, the NHS have sole responsibility for providing ALL the care needed. As in the 'Coughlan' judgement the Courts continue to support this core principle: Thus in Case No: CO/9781/2010 The judgement handed down on 28/10/2010 applied Coughlan and the Health Act confirming that the right to continuing long term care is determined by clinical need NOT on an individuals ability to pay. Miss Booker,the 19 year old lady concerned was awarded £2.9 Million compensation having been left tetraplegic following a road accident.
Oldham PCTs lawyers had argued that, given Ms. Bookers pay-out, it was simply not necessary for the NHS to continue picking up the bill for her care when she wanted a private nursing regime and had the money to fund it. However, Judge Pelling came down in favour of Ms. Booker and Direct Line insurance when he ruled that Ms. Booker can "do as she pleases" with her damages pay-out and is just as entitled to free NHS care as an "independently wealthy patient". Stressing the principles underpinning the public health service, he said: "Access to NHS services is based on clinical need, not on an individuals ability to pay". Ruling the PCT's stance unlawful, he said "there is nothing within the NHS National framework that suggests that financial considerations are relevant to the provision of future (i.e, long term) healthcare"
Social Services clearly have have no role to play until all appeals processes are exhausted and evidence to satisfy a court of law is produced to show that a patient DOES NOT have an illness disability or injury.
Therefore a patient can refuse to submit to a 'means test' until this point is reached as their care is no business of social services. Just tell them "My position is that this patient is 'ultra vires' your council under the 1946 National Health Service Act, the 1948 National Assistance Act (sect.21) and the 'Coughlan' and 'Booker' judgements and I decline to provide any information which I suspect will be used for an unlawful purpose.
I am entitled to pursue this line of argument under Wandsworth v Winder, House of Lords 29th Nov, 1984.
Steve.

Brilliant Steve, and such a recent case too. Just as we have always been told here, financial information is no business of theirs! Judge pelling, what a star !

Hi all,

My Mother has been in my local hospital's 'Step-up, step down' unit for over three months and is currently being assessed for placement with SS. I have had a meeting with a social worker who has asked me to sign the assessment form and has given me a finance form to fill out. I'm being told that my Mother would be best placed in a residential home to which she would need to fund as she has the financial means to do so. I have POA for my mothers finances. My Mother has a brain tumour, is doubly incontinent, diabetic and is registered disabled through CMT. She has been declared non compos mentis.

I challenged this with the social worker who told me that NHS funding has only been granted in a few cases and in my mothers case, her medical needs can be provided by a care worker and does not need a registered nurse, so this would not qualify for NHS CHC funding. If I do not sign the assessment and finance form will I be liable to legal prosecution?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hoppy

Hello Hoppy,

Welcome to the forum and sorry to see you are being given the usual misinformation by social services.

First of all, it is not social services who decide if someone qualifies for continuing care funding. Tell the social worker you are not prepared to discuss any finances with them until the NHS have carried out the appropriate continuing care assessments. They are legally obliged to do this under the Delayed Discharge (Continuing Care) Directions 2009.

The issue is if someone has primary health needs. Who provides the care is irrelevent and the social worker is not being honest with you when they say that if a care worker provides the care then your mother won't qualify for NHS funding.

Don't sign any financial forms with the SS under any circumstances. You cannot be challenged legally if you refuse to sign and in fact you are acting correctly as the EPA holder by protecting your mothers finances from these sharks.

I would suggest you start a new thread in the General Chat section where your plight will receive moe attention.

Bob S wrote:Hello Hoppy,

Welcome to the forum and sorry to see you are being given the usual misinformation by social services.

First of all, it is not social services who decide if someone qualifies for continuing care funding. Tell the social worker you are not prepared to discuss any finances with them until the NHS have carried out the appropriate continuing care assessments. They are legally obliged to do this under the Delayed Discharge (Continuing Care) Directions 2009.

The issue is if someone has primary health needs. Who provides the care is irrelevent and the social worker is not being honest with you when they say that if a care worker provides the care then your mother won't qualify for NHS funding.

Don't sign any financial forms with the SS under any circumstances. You cannot be challenged legally if you refuse to sign and in fact you are acting correctly as the EPA holder by protecting your mothers finances from these sharks.

I would suggest you start a new thread in the General Chat section where your plight will receive moe attention.

Thank you 'Bob S' for your reply which is most helpful. I will start a new thread in the General Chat section as you suggest.

Hoppy

Hi there - just reading the above I feel sick! I am my mother's EPoA and I was harrassed by letters from SS and I finally gave in and did a financial assessment on her behalf. My dad was her full time carer until he died from mesothelioma (asbestos) in 2005. Since then she has paid for her own care but when that ran out, SS told us her house needed to be sold. It went on the market and it is now in the process of being sold. A charge was put on the property. Does this mean that when the house sells, she has to use all of it to fund her future care? She had a stroke at the age of 26 during pregnancy and she never recovered and has never been able to walk, stand or keep any balance. She can feed herself but is unable to bath or toilet herself. I am in such a muddle I just don't know what to do.

VickGus wrote:Hi there - just reading the above I feel sick! I am my mother's EPoA and I was harrassed by letters from SS and I finally gave in and did a financial assessment on her behalf. My dad was her full time carer until he died from mesothelioma (asbestos) in 2005. Since then she has paid for her own care but when that ran out, SS told us her house needed to be sold. It went on the market and it is now in the process of being sold. A charge was put on the property. Does this mean that when the house sells, she has to use all of it to fund her future care? She had a stroke at the age of 26 during pregnancy and she never recovered and has never been able to walk, stand or keep any balance. She can feed herself but is unable to bath or toilet herself. I am in such a muddle I just don't know what to do.

I have just read your posting...i feel beyond sad about your case...i allowed ss to use up all my mothers savings...sold her house...I have no constuctive information to give you only you to say you are in my thoughts and i wish you all the strength and determination to do what is the best for you and your mother

Many thanks for your kind words mergymraeg100.

Hello Vickgus

Would think that you would be able to still decide how you used the sale money.

Are there any debts involved. Where your Mothers care fees paid up in full?

The order is only for the sale of the house unless their is debt involved. If the latter it means depending on the amount of debt that the debt has to be paid out of the sale first before anything else.

In property that is say £200,000 plus I dont see any reason why you cant pay your Mums care fees using one part of it. Using some more on care provision type investment and using the rest how you wish.

Try to get full continuing care funding and make the strong case that your Mother as a primary health care need.

With kind regards Ian